Chat Notes

                                By    Franz J. T. Lee


Dear Pandemonium Crew & Visitors,

I am publishing my Chat Notes here, so that you could follow my line of
argument in a more logical fashion. Also they guide our participants to enable a
smooth, concentrated chat session, thus nurturing discussions, which reveal the
essence of our labour deliberations..

I am sure that you will enjoy them in this form too.

Special Thanks to Stella, Iris, Khalid and Carl, who had to struggle with the "Cut & Paste" Horror!

Pandemonium Greetings,


                                                            Part I

Labour: Physical Labour or Work


I'll synthesize the first part of our Chat Topic today as follows:

The Natural, Social and Historic Basis and Relations of Emancipation.

Now, please do not get scared of this seemingly scholarly title. We're
discussing this theme, of us, for us, and by us. We all can contribute according to
our understanding of the theme. In fact, we need two or three sessions, to discuss
this theme thoroughly. Today I'll just introduce the topic in a general way.
I'll introduce the flow of the exposition slowly, will await comments, will
reply, and, when we have finished, I'll continue with the explanations, until the end of
this part, then we can set in with the general discussion. Also, what follows is just
a humble contribution, not an "absolute" gospel truth.

All in all, I need 15 to 20 minutes to illustrate everything for today. Please
it is not a "professoral" lecture, it's a simple, friendly, typical Franz-Chat appetizer
and tantalizer. No tranquilizers are necessary. Our topic is a simple, straightforward matter. It formulates
essential  questions, near and dear to us. For example, what really is Nature, Society, History or

We'll start with Physical Work, with Menial Labour.
Nevertheless, Safety First! However, nothing which I will expound is
personal, is intended to offend or hurt anybody's feelings. Please, bear this in mind
as we "march on", while the labour drama unfolds.  Furthermore, what follows has no reference
whatsoever to any specific human being, alive or dead; it's all fictional. Any resemblance to, or reflection
about anybody, dead or alive, is purely unintentional and coincidental.
So, there we go, and, please, don't ask me: How did he know all that about
me? It's all part of the game. The sky is the limit. Enjoy the intellectual fun!

Across our lives, we heard about concepts like Labour, like Work, like a
Relation; we read about them, we even used them in speech or writing. What did
we really understand, what did we talk about? Did it ever occur to us to
ask such questions? If so, why? If not, why not? Did these topics, these terms, not interest us? Are they
not fundamental for everyday living? Are they not concrete enough, not practical enough? We were so
busy working, labouring. We could not find time for such things. we leave them to students of
philosophy, to the ivory tower elites. Were we not copy-cats, copy-anti-communists?
Copy-pro-democrats? How could we hate Hegel & Marx, when we did not even read or
understand Capital or the Phenomenology?

Why do we trust secondary literature? Political street gossip and
washer(wo)men small talk? Why not try to read and understand something about
"communism" all of, by and for ourselves? Will the Marx virus infect us, if we do
so? After all, something in our cranium is still functioning, some brains are still
left. Too busy? Too lazy? No Time, too much work? Not necessary? Any other
lame excuse? We did not study, not study philosophy as a major subject; we are no
intellectuals, no academicians, so why bother about thinking, about thought?
Why do we "think" like this? Is it natural? Is it social? Why are we just
working, working, labouring, labouring? Who taught us, who told us to "think" like this? Did we
ourselves come to this conclusion? The problem is now that suddenly "thinking", the "intellect" has
entered "big business". Who does not have "intellectual labour power" to offer, and the "correct" one, is
unemployed. Why this turn of events? Why Intellect, why Intellectual Labour, why Intellectual Property,
why Intellectual Property Rights?

So far the detective, detecting, inquisitive, inquisitory introduction. So far
the sensory warming-up of the motory nerves, of our nervous brain, of our thinking
motor, our "think-tank", now let's get down to "thought business".
Now let us get down to something more near, dear and warm. Relation?
What's this? What's that? A love relation? An "I Love You" Relation? That's
dangerous! A Father-Son relation? A Virgin Mary of Fatima relation?
Thing relations, Money relations, the intercommunication with our
relatives, with our step-mother, with our mother-in-law?
For sure, the best relation which we know, which we practise everyday as an adult, is our Labour
relation, our Work relation. When we work physically, when we labour manually, we relate in a certain
way within our world system.

How do we relate? We have a specific connection, a unique way of
"changing" our natural environment and our social habitat. And, why do we
work? For fun? Do we love to work? No, to earn money, a wage, a salary, to make
more money, to enjoy a better life. Excellent!!!
We work to fulfil our needs, our "human" needs, to survive, to have
leisure, pleasure, to eat, to drink, to build shelter, to breed, to reprocreate, to
marry, to build a family, a house;  one day, some day, to pay for a decent coffin, to
be buried in a beautiful cemetery, etc.

Do we work for ourselves, do we get a wage from ourselves? Certainly not,
well, then we work for a boss. He pays us. For what? For working so hard for him,
because we are so nice?  Certainly not. He's a business man. He buys and sells. what did he buy from
me? What did I sell to him? Did he offer me a just price? Did I have any say in the price?
Well, I am selling my physical labour power, and he offers the market
price, regulated by supply, demand and profit interests. It's an unequal exchange.
That's why I have a trade union, why I go on strike.

Also, why the state sends the police to defend the private property of the boss, and to chase me away with tear-gas, with death, if necessary. I have no other way to survive. Gone are the golden days,
the golden cave days. no more natural ants, locusts, plants and fruits to enjoy. Only
Tomatoes filled with Ritalin and Vaccines!!! Nature is concrete, concrete walls, is
cement. Even my thoughts are concrete, cemented. I love the concrete; I want to be
concrete, a concrete monolithic block. I must buy the things to satisfy my needs with money. Money is
the nexus, the relation of my survival. In exchange for money, which is my wage, which is the price
of my Physical Labour Power, I now satisfy all my daily needs.
I buy a car, a handsome man, intelligence, beauty creams, love, ....

Now I know what is a relation, my main relation. I don't like this relation. I
prefer relations that are less arduous and strenuous; for example, relations with no
responsibilities, holiday relations, Catholic Mardi Gras relations, carnival
relations, madonna relations, religious relations, where Our Father never appears.
Now, please note: What I explained till now, for many is just obsolete
"bull-shit". It has nothing to do with contemporary reality. It's true. I've said
nothing new, as yet. It is pure Marxian Political Economy, as explained in Capital,
Volume I, 1859, at the time of the good old laissez-faire liberal capitalism.

Poor me! Capitalist World: Now, please, please, don't call me a Marx-ist, a
Social-ist, a Commun-ist, I am allergic to all "-isms". I am no "-ist", it's nothing
new, it's nothing original and authentic; it's not even real or true. Even if capitalist
ideologues do call us an "-ist", that's old, stinking, "Cold War" ideological
"mind-control" brew. There exists no Pandemonism, no Pandemonists. This is very important. I want us
to note this. I'm no Socialist, no Communist! No Marxist, No Marxist-Leninist, no Trotskyite.

Let's proceed. .... talking about more "pleasant" things. ... From the 12th
century till the end of the Second Millennium, this was the natural, physical, menial,
quantitative, global, capitalist blood-sucking, generated from Lisbon, Madrid,
Amsterdam, Rome, Brussels, London, Berlin, Washington D.C., etc.
It was not an exclusive Illuminati, Fascist or Nazi hobby! The latter are
just the true, hidden, ugly "democratic" faces of the whole global system of economic
exploitation, of the international conspiracy of every single, individual capitalist,
of every business, company or multi-national enterprise.

What I just explained is stale stuff, it's really old stuff, it should be left in
the cellar or the flea-market. But, let's advance to the current age or merging
multi-nationals, of the concentration of capital in the hands of a giga-global
company. The progressive pauperization of billions of physical workers on a
global scale. S.O.S. Oh, no. This is obsolete stuff again: Illuminati Prophecies of
Nostradamus, Marx (Capital) and Lenin (Imperialism, The Highest Stage of
Capitalism). We really have a tough time to think new, anew, to find something original,
something really and truly innovative. Well, that's what thinking is all about. Not a window-shopping
spree. Not lying on the beach in Mallorca. Not cutting wheat, not digging for gold, not working in a Coca
Cola factory yesteryear, in the days of Charlie Chaplin. It's Hard Work, Hard Labour, Intellectual
Labour. It's modern, it's cool, it's in!

Again, there we go. Labour, the Relation, Work, can be bought, can be
sold. In fact, this is what Labour is all about. It is something which you can buy,
which you can sell. It produces an abstract, an intellectual relation, an exchange
relation, money, capital, wealth, power. It's the stuff, the relation, of which male and female
prostitutes are made; its economic prostitution on a global scale. We call it economic exploitation.

In the same way as the physical body, human nature, can be exploited
economically by work, by labouring, the mind, the spiritual entity, the intellectual,
social existence can economically be exploited, be dominated, be controlled, be
canalized towards producing, reproducing profits, wealth and power.
Let me continue with the explanation. ...Now, please do not make the
mistake to think that abstract is nothing, is empty space, is non-existent; on the
contrary, Intellect, Abstraction is Existence, is Society.

In our miserable education, we were taught to sense, to sense-perceive, a
prerequisite for physical labour. And even our sense-perception was
under-nourished, was deliberately limited to agricultural and concrete industrial
production. Our Acts, our Actions, are all underdeveloped, like all under-developed
countries. Our brains were neglected, their time did not come as yet. Their
exploitation was not yet on the order of the day in previous millennia. Now, the hour
of qualitative mind-sucking has come.

Now, let's pause here for today, and reflect about the aforesaid. Next, week, we'll continue to discuss the
relation, Nature - Society, as it appears in the Fatherland, as Intellectual Labour.

                                                        Part II

Intellectual Labour


As usual, before we get down to "intellectual business", let us clarify some
vital issues. Last time, we tried to apprehend Physical Labour. Now, let's briefly place
Intellectual Labour in historical focus. But, firstly, what do we understand by intellectus
or Verstand? . Please pardon me today, for being so explanatory, so introductory, it's
important. I have "good" emancipatory reasons.

Furthermore, a short note on our general philosophic endeavour. Extensively
and intensively, over the decades, we have studied seriously Democracy, Foreign
Policy, Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Revolutions, the Frankfurter School,
Elementary Physics, Mathematics,.... Economics, History, Religion, Literature, Poetry,
Languages, etc. Since donkey years, we have read whatever we found of scientific, philosophic
or emancipatory interest; we have studied Philosophy, Politics, Psychology, Sociology,
etc. With unbiased, scientific innocence, with open-minded preparedness to learn, with restless, philosophic expectations, we tried to unravel, to interpenetrate the profound caverns of knowledge, of truth and wisdom, listening to anything, to anybody, who had something to contribute, to reveal. What is published on our Home Pages, and what is being illustrated in our chats, are the disturbing results of stringent, serious deliberations. And now? Lenin: What Is To Be Done?

We cannot supply the data, the facts, the literature, the statistics, which after
decades of investigation, study and analysis had led to such radical, dramatic,
innovative, emancipatory conclusions. This must go on the record once and for all. Many people, for
whatever reason, may not be able to follow us; others may condemn us, may declare us to be totally
crazy; we understand these outbursts, in fact, we expect them, and we nurture no
"bad" feelings towards any person concerning this delicate issue.

Now, let's move on. Please, be patient, our task is extremely difficult, diverse
and controversial; exactly because it concerns thinking itself, in-itself, which exists
extremely complicated and complex. Thus, warm up your "thinking motor", launch
your belligerent "think tank".

Concerning the "problem" of scientific verification and "proof" of our asseverations,
I'll just quote Maria Fedulova, a leader of the Soldiers' Mothers' Committee accusing
Moscow of giving weird figures concerning the number of casualties during the War in Chechyna:

"There are no statistics in this country, there are only lies and big lies."
Where else is it different?

Also, a chat is not a lecture, is not a scientific treatise. By its very nature, it's
fragmentary, incomplete. But, it always preserves a central "red thread", and does not
simply vanish into zillions of irrelevant, chaotic nothingnesses.
Intellect, as we understand this Concept, concerns our Diagory: Rest a n d Motion, is a "contradiction".
It has two sides which are inter-related, it exists as Act a n d Thought. It belongs to Essence a n d
Existence, hence, it is Concrete a n d Abstract.

Exactly, because Intellect is Concrete, it can be exploited economically;
precisely, because it exists Abstract, which exists always as Concrete a n d Abstract, it
can be perverted into Labour, into Profits, into Capital. It can be dominated,
domesticated and controlled.

Motion, as we understand this term, exists as Rest a n d Motion, it's two sides;  it is varietal, variegated,
diversified. Now the issue gets complicated. One variant is Space-Time Motion, another is Unequal and Combined Development, another is Quantitative and Qualitative Change, another is Latent and Tendential Transformation, etc.

In the latter cases, by no means, ONLY spatial-temporal parameters are of quintexistential importance.
Please note the various ways of "measuring" and "determining" Change, Movement, Progress, Change.

Hence, Thinking and Thought, Mind Relations, Act and Intellect, are very complex and complicated. Not
everything, not anything, is necessarily thinking. Billions on this planet, either never thought, or if at all, very seldom ever have activated and intellectualized their mental capacities in a "lifetime".

Not that the "people" do or did not have this ontic gift, simply, they never had the opportunity to enjoy
this poliversal, ontic, authentic pleasure. Exploitation, Domination, Discrimination, Dehumanization, in a
nut-shell, EDDD, just "nipped them in the bud".
This is one of the most heinous crimes ever committed by Labour and it's
concomitant planetary system. However, this is not "good" or "bad", "correct" or
"false", it is no moral or religious accusation. It's simply one of those bare-faced
everyday truths. It's a fact, with which "mankind" had lived for millennia, and with which it will perish
somewhen, somewhere, somehow, somewhither, within the next millennia.

Anyhow, returning to our topic, after millennia of "human sacrifice", there are,
as a minimum, two major mental faculties left -- that is, if we leave aside some
subordinate abilities, like intuition, belief, foresight, etc. -- and they are:  Intellect and

As indicated before, they exist as Relations -- in other words, they exist
variegated, many-sided. Over the last millennia, only an infinitesimal capacity of our
mental functions have been "socialized", been "developed", or rather "perverted".
And precisely by the alienated essence of Labour, by EDDD.

Now, ... Emancipation concerns the recovery of these dormant faculties, or, if
still possible, their repair. But, please, please, not by means of "education",
"conscientization", "mobilization", "organization", "democratization", of the
"masses", etc. It's a waste of precious "Space and Time". These are strychnine to
any thought process, fatal ideology, lethal mind and thought control. We've had enough
already of this "our daily bread", of "Our Father", of this mortal panacea, of these
ritalinized tomatoes, of these ritualized potatoes, of mind vaccines.
Similarly, only certain Acts were "officialized", "normed", "naturalized",
rather "maimed",  in the process of the exploitation of Nature, to serve the Needs and
Interests of Man. Why always walk upright? On two legs?

Why not "walk" sometimes on four, or make permanent somersaults,
whenever we so wish? It would be great fun, free flex appeal, natural aerobics,
delightful entrechat, emancipatory fitness! Not sickening "Fitness America", but
sickfree Fitness History. As "babies", we loved to do it, why not "walk" on our hands?
Looking down at reality, at near and dear Mother Earth? Later more of this!

Until now, modern agriculture, industrial production, intellectual reproduction
need a wage-slave, having his hands "free", his 'thumb" in action, who walks in upright
gait! Soon, in space wage-slavery, "walking" will be altered again, will experience a
neoglobal revolution, according to the necessities of NASA or Beal Aerospace.
The resultant labouring Frankenstein Creatures, produced across the patrian
millennia, were called "scum of the earth", "savages", "natives", "apes and
monkeys", "slaves", "speaking tools", "peasants", "coolies", "camel drivers",
"barbarians", "niggers", "the yellow danger", "Jews", "foreigners", "aliens", "the masses", "British
subjects", "the Americans", "the lumpen-proletariat", "the working class", "women", "juvenile
delinquents", etc.

Nowadays, the intellectual wage-slaves, the geneticists, engineers, scientists,
managers, physicists, all are joining this sonorous labour crew, are boarding the Labour
"Titanic", on its final voyage, on the icy Information Ocean of Globalization, of
Intergalactic Entropy. So, we were born with Natural Acts and Acting, and they were progressively,
across the ages, "naturalized" into Physical Labour; Thoughts and Thinking were "socialized" into
Intellectual Labour, and excellent Reason and Reasoning were "desecrated" into Belief, Revelation,
into Rationalization, Rationing, Rational Labour Power. Now there we have the three-fold, ugly,
luciferean visage (mug) of Labour, of global "self-destruction", "self-defeatism" (Carl Zimmerman).

Now, let's take a "backward", a closer, down-to-earth look at Man, at Homo,
who arrogantly loves to elevate himself above "creation", who "thinks" that he is
something very special, a rare divine product, the alpha and omega of all essence,
existence and transcendence. Let's look at him, within the context of his own spatial-temporal parameters,
of His Story, of perverted History, in his Pre-History.

However, as explained before, don't forget that spatio-temporal motion,
primitive, patrian reality, is only a negligible quantity in cosmic-ontic-transcendental
mega-mensions, micro-domains and zilli-spheres. And, this is the only reality of which
billions are "conscious". They vegetate in it, they perish in it. They defend it with their
very lives.

Spatio-temporal, formal-logical reality reveals only infinitesimal, extremely
limited crypto-levels of perception, reception, cognition and recognition -- it's really a
pathetic medium to pursue knowledge, truth and wisdom; but, it is the cradle and grave
of labour, of EDDD, of Godism and Satanism, of Parochialism and Globalism, of
Capitalism and Illuminatism. Nevertheless, let's find the "labouring man" in Pre-History; let's
encounter the "Bad Link", Labour. Engels called it the "missing link". What a pity
that it wasn't "missing" for all eternity!! We wouldn't have missed it at all!

Now, comes the interesting part of our chat!!!
Well, Humanity was looking for it's Cradle in Space and Time. In Time, man
had to scrutinize some 4.5 billion years, that is supposed to be the age of our Solar
System. In Space, the Planet Earth was sufficient. Only Where and When!
Obviously, Great Britain, the cradle of great palaeontologists, prehistorians,
ethnologists and geologists, had the first choice. The first great Englishman was the
Sussex Man, the Boxgrove Man, who had lived there some 500 000 years ago. Well,
the poor "creature" was besieged by some ferocious animals, probably leopards, and
was voraciously devoured.

However, let's not knock this prehistoric gentleman; he doesn't qualify as an
archaic, archetypal Adam. C.G. Jung would not have been fascinated by him at all.
After all, the Neanderthal-Jung did not specifically like the British islanders. Then the
Peking Man, Asian Homo erectus committed cradle-snatching, but not for too long.
Now, getting back to the Leakeys!

Louis had a grievous problem: how to distinguish an ape from a man? That a
man makes noises, gestures, even speaks, all these were not enough for a differentia
especifica. The essence of man, as Friedrich Engels had already indicated in the 19th
century, is the key, the "missing link"; in other words, Labour or Work, Physical and Intellectual Labour;
in nuce, human production and reproduction.

To reproduce, something else enters this manly process: memory, mental
faculties, intellectual activity, technique and technology. Thus, from the point go,
Labour had a Janus-face: A physical and intellectual cruel visage!
In the Olduvai Gorge, in East Africa, Louis and Mary
found the tool-maker, Homo habilis. This find caused a Copernican Revolution; it
overturned European History. At last the "missing link" between the Stone Axe and
the Computer was discovered. Poor Asian Homo erectus fell down on his four feet

But the controversy continued: Were there older "human beings"?
Is Man's "Cradle" older than 1.5 million years?

In 1974, Dr. Johanson launched his Ethiopian "wo-man-ape", the
3.1-million-year-old "Lucy". In 1976, Dr. Mary Leakey countered with the 3.6 million-year-old
Tanzanian Laetoli 54-Step-"footprints" of a prehistoric "man-like" creature. Then, in 1984, Richard, with
the aid of a Kenyan, discovered the young "Turkana Boy", a complete 1.6 million-year-old skull and
skeleton. And, he was extremely man-like. He used Acheulian stone tools to hunt for proteins, for animal
flesh. In Kenya, Meave tried to dig deeper into Human History, and she came up with the
4.1-million-year-old Homo australopithecus anamensis, but he turned out to be too much "ape-like". Also
the discoveries near Johannesburg, at Sterkfontein, of 600 hominid fossils, of "men-apes", who were
walking on two feet, some up to 35 million years old, could not dethrone Homo habilis, the African
Adam, the legitimate labouring "Father" of Homo sapiens! In 1998, in South Africa, even when Ronald Clarke found a man-like "little foot" of a three-million-year-old, upright, walking hominid, complete with skull and skeleton, yet Mandela and Mbeki could not claim South Africa as the "Cradle of

It's interesting what Richard has to tell us about the origin of our human
species: "The events circumscribed in them are chance. We are a chance. But the very beginning
of the human story was in Africa where a population first developed the skills to move around on two legs and later developed the adaptation that we now call intelligence." So, before some 2 million years ago, natural, ape-like, man-like, apeman-like species had lived naturally and socially in East Africa; they did
not work, they did not labour, they used their four legs, and survived for millions of years.

But, then a new adaptation, a new way of movement, of motion, was ushered in:
to walk on two legs! To develop the thumb, to have the hands free. Worse even, to
produce and to reproduce the necessary tools for survival, a certain mental activity,
"socialization", intelligence, was developed. Now come brilliant, original ideas. So there we have the
prehistoric Homo sapiens, the archaic Homo faber. The labouring animal. Our problem, however, is now:
: to get back onto our four feet, to leave this bipedalism, this formal-logical, Either-Or Physical Labour,
and to get rid of our "intelligence" (Intellectual Labour). ... and our ICQ, I seek you, sorry, our IQ
quantitative measurements.

To free ourselves from our non-contradictory, our Either-Or, -- our dualistic,
one-track, -- bi-cameral, binary, bipedal mind and thought control mechanisms --- from
our fantastic, religious ideas and intelligent ideology. This is the first baby-step towards
Emancipation. PLEASE NOTE: Via Labour, Man catapulted himself out of History, left his
quadrological, quadripedal transcendence, and fell into the epicentre of a boiling
crucible of dualism, formal logics and dialectics, in a word, into Labour.
You'll like this one: Jumping from the trees, leaving the love, care and
beauty of Mother Nature, behind, getting away from a fertile earth, from Mother
Earth, gazing, in erect posture, in upward gait, Man elevated himself to Heaven, to
Auschwitz, to the Labour Camp. Man became a premature birth, had no sharp teeth anymore, no claws,
no velocity, a few miserable senses, he had no natural defence anymore; Labour left him
only endowed with intelligence, with "intellectual labour", with so-called "brains", of
which he is so very proud.

That Man is mini-part and micro-parcel of a totality of an earthly, cosmic
process; and that he is not necessarily a key element, on the contrary, rather a labour
"miscarriage", a "microsoft" being, "internetted in all sorts of contradictions, and that
not all is "human" or belong to Homo sapiens, who walks on two legs, this his
"intelligence" does not tell him. Instead he visions himself as a sucker, as a bloodsucker, as a
powersucker, as a Capitalist Conquistador, as a Global Matador. We wish him Bon Voyage on his
intergalactic trip, on his omnipotent Titanic! Straight to a "Black Hole", to his cradle
and grave, to a pitch "Black Planet".

Next time, we'll deal with perverse Rational Labour, generated by the so-called
"Illuminati". Now, enough pre-historic Statistics. I'll stop here for today. Let's chat and
debate now.

Labour history is not All history. in fact, it's not the History, about what we're
talking. Labour "history" is a mini-relation between Nature and Society, a maltreated
one, a perverted one, suffering from the fatal epidemic, the Aids: EDDD.
We, the billions of masses, were tuned to see, to live in a
mini-labour-virtual-reality. It's not all of History; and this secret was guarded by formal logics and
dialectics.  It's very hard, well-nigh impossible, to explain to a "normal" human being, that
he is only living in a zillionth part of reality, and that his knowledge about that
microcosm is even negligible. Everybody claims to know everything, to know the only
truth that ever existed. This is what Bob Marley meant by "mental slavery". --
The real true being and existence, Nature and Society, before labour was born,
had, has no need to compete, to survive. Nowadays, plants, insects, animals and "human beings"
compete to survive. Millions of years ago, they survived for millions of years, without destroying
themselves with competition. And even then, why is Life categorized "higher" than
"No-Life" or "Non-Life"? Why the relevance of "Life Sciences"? Dead man tells no
tales, does not produce Profits!

                                                       Part III


Rational Labour, Salvation & Emancipation


We'll summarize the quintessence of our last  three chats, and we'll also launch the discussion:
Emancipation versus Salvation. We'll use the terms Labour and Work simply as identical synonyms.
However, before, a few words concerning the exposition of our topic.
WARNING: We're entering frontierlike terrain, where things are uni-que and poli-que,
vague and opaque, clouded and shrouded. In fact, we should now change over to the grammatical
Subjunctive or Possibility Mood. Why I'm saying this, is because I have to ask you to be very patient and
open-minded; in this field, there exists scarcely any literature; also, it is very difficult
for us, to free ourselves from ossified conceptions and world outlooks. No problem, having a certain view, but we've to go beyond ourselves, to transcend, to excel ourselves and our thinking.
We'll try to be as clear as possible, and to expound logically what we are trying to illustrate, to portray.
Later in the debate period, we can go into further details.

Certainly, that what everybody generally denominates as Labour or Work, we
admit, is, in fact, something very difficult to grasp, to apprehend, to comprehend. "To
go to work", "to work", are complex, intricate processes. Some of the "greatest" thinkers of the
"fatherland" have already wrecked their brains in their intellectual efforts to explain and to identify
Labour. However, practically all of them saw it as a means of dominating "aggressive" Nature, of
satisfying human "needs" in the "struggle" for survival of the "fittest" species. We'll just mention a few
here: Hegel, Adam Smith, Ricardo, Malthus, Marx, Kautsky, Bernstein, Lange, Dobb, Preobrazhensky,
Rosa Luxemburg, Lenin, Hilferding, Mandel, Sweezy, Baran, Bettelheim, and, why not, the Samuelsons,

Either the identity of "Labour" is the  most guarded secret of the global system, or it's the most complicated thing on Earth to understand, or the "Lords of the Universe", across the millennia,
made sure that workers would never ever comprehend what it means to earn one's "daily bread".

Now, as we have elaborated the issue in previous chats, imagine if the
workers of the world would understand and know that Labour is the source of all
economic exploitation, political domination, ...  social discrimination and
dehumanization, then, who would still want to work, and what would happen to the whole
global system, to capital, to profits? Imagine the mayhem, when everybody would know that Labour is
Depredation (Economic Exploitation), Domination, Discrimination and Dehumanization,
in short, DDDD. It would spell doomsday, the end of the world for six billion creatures!!
If we assume that Work or Labour is "natural" and "necessary" to satisfy
"human needs", and for the survival of the species -- this is the world outlook of more
than the absolute majority of mankind -- well, then, why do billions hate Labour or Work? Especially the
physical, manual and menial workers detest that they are mere vulgar, banausic toilers. And why do the
creme de la creme of humanity enjoy such a wonderful life, barely moving a small finger?
Are there different levels and degrees of Labour or Work? We came to the conclusion that Labour is a
historic process, which has identifiable Levels, different Degrees AND triversified Mensions. A historic
process, that's the key.

A process moves, it has contradictions, it
has relations. Now, not only is Labour a historic process, it is THE historic process per se,
as far as the fatherland, the Patria is concerned. Everybody speaks about an objective world, about the
outside world; and about a subjective realm, the inner world. Often, we did this in our chats. I remember
that Carl & Jutta had an interesting debate the issue, but, let's continue with objectivity and subjectivity.
As far as I'm concerned, these fictitious worlds, existing "parallel", side by side, can only be Nature and
Society. And they are related, that's the reason why Man, Society, must satisfy his "needs" to survive to
exploit Nature. To do this, to get food, he has to touch Nature, enter in a one-sided relation with Nature.

Sorry, the extensiveness, the matter is complicated.
In brief, Man has to initiate a physical, one-sided relation with Nature, to rape his Mother. Thus, Man
perverted the objective and subjective, the natural and ontic relations, which had existed on this planet for
millions of years. And he introduced what he calls "History", a perverted Nature - Society relation,
introduced Labour.

Now, we also spoke about various levels of perverted natural-social relations, about Physical Labour.
Here, simply, Man has to overwhelm, dominate and exploit
Nature directly, physically, to rape and destroy her natural fruits and processes; of
course, to satisfy man's "natural" needs. This is one level.
Another is to change Nature, to use Nature to exploit Nature, because Man
is such a weak, miserable "miscarriage", born too early, helpless for at least his first
five years of life. This being who barely can survive, now claims rights to survive, paramount
needs that must be satisfied by all means. Hence technology, the stone-axe, is another level of physical

The whole development we can follow across "history", reaching
"intellectual" work, which also has different degrees; to the extent that nearly no
material, natural products are necessary; or at least, their value becomes negligible.
Of course, because man is basically Labour, even the
relations of the creme de la creme have to do with Work. Labour is not only something
which is being  exploited, it also exploits itself socially, and therewith it exploits Nature.
Now what is the relation: Technology - Rational Labour? This is what Rational Labour essentially is, and
how it exists on a global scale. Here, fundamentally, you can note, that we have a very specific, different
conception of Labour, which makes a lot of sense, and which explains many a problem, many a strange

Now, we are somehow clear what is Physical Labour, we have a slight notion
how Intellectual Labour exists. But what should we understand by Rational Labour?
What are the implications and complications for Emancipation?  Let me recollect: On this Planet, Labour
is the Maximum-Relation in the Fatherland. Every other relation, whether natural or/and social, is related
to Labour. Labour as Perverted Alienation, as DDDD, affects, generates and controls all other existent
"human" relations on Earth. Rational Labour negates Physical and Intellectual Labour; in clear text, it
depredates, dominates, discriminates and dehumanizes them. Here depredation implies "economic
plundering and pillaging". This is exactly what European Colonialism, Imperialism and Neo-Colonialism
have done for over two millennia already; this is what Rational Labour had been doing in Ancient Greece,
in the Middle Ages, in the so-called "Third World".

The concrete expression of Rational Labour is the World Market, better
identified as the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the
Giant-Giga-Global Corporations; it's political and military superstructural reflection
is the United Nations, alias the USA, Pentagon, White House, FBI, CIA, etc. In Marxist terms, Rational
Labour acquires the connotation of Capital; in idealist philosophical terminology, it is denuded as Reason,
as social product of the infamous Age of Reason. What else than Capital could be more rational in this
best of all worlds? What else could be more real? In a nut-shell, Labour is Rational, is Real. Who would
doubt this? Without Labour we would not even have a real world to rationalize about; we would not even
have any reason, in the double sense of the word, to realize anything. In this world only Labour, only
Capital, is being realized, is being rationalized.

The rest of the introductory exposition could not be posted, due to an AOL problem;
a refusal to re-connect panta98 to the chat again. However, here is the essence of the
rest of the exposition:

Before we continue, I wish to stress that our definition of History, of the Process of
Emancipation, of the Relation: Nature  a n d  Society is an intellectual-rational
"discovery", which have cost us decades of sleepless nights of discussion, critique,
debate and scientific-philosophic stringency.
We came to the conclusion that the Relation "Nature  a n d  Society", in other words,
Life, existed on this planet already for over 5 billion formal-logical years. Many scientists verified
this "fact"; we do not question their findings, our problem concerns the methods, logic
and world outlook, which they applied, and the weird conclusions to which the majority of them come.
We stated that History has various levels, degrees and mensions, one of these degrees
we have identified as the Patria, as the fatherland, and it's main actor is homo sapiens
sapiens, as he himself had identified himself. We discovered his historic relation as
being Labour, Alienation.

However, within History, on this planet, various scientists have shown that there
existed other relations, before, and even parallel to homo sapiens sapiens. And who
knows, around us, what all still exist today, parallel, oblique or transversal.
According to the latest archaeological and palaeontological discoveries, the first
"hominids" appeared some 5 million years ago; about 2.5 million years ago, the first
homo genus evolved. Parallel,  since about 1.8 million years ago, homo erectus
developed. Another homo species accompanied them, homo australopithecus robustus . All three
homo species lived at the same time, in other words, we had three different forms, degrees, of the
Relation Nature  a n d  Society, of History,  in that epoch. Then, the labour relation,
the perversion, homo sapiens sapiens, had not been born as yet.

The latter, this monstrosity, homo sapiens sapiens, a contemporary of homo
neandertal, either jumped from the trees or stepped out of an extraterrestrial flying
saucer only about 125 000 years ago. Surely, he is not the only, real, true
representative of History, of Life.
The forerunner of Man, was the archaic homo sapiens, who definitely did not labour;
he saw life  about 800 000 years ago. This species is supposed to be extinct; and it is
being claimed, that today only modern men are labouring on this god forlorn planet.
Within this context, we discuss Nature, Society, History, Labour and Alienation ---
and, of course, Emancipation.

We are not part of a "fight", of a "struggle", of a "battle", of a "war"; this would be
tantamount to the eternalization of  Labour, of giving it, dialectically, with the
"struggle of the opposites" a new lease of "affirmative", of "positive" life.
This is exactly how Hegel's Logic and Marx's Capital  had contributed to the
face-lifting and rejuvenation of Labour and Capital. It was their historic task, and
they laboured rationally par excellence.
When we state this, in no way, do we elevate ourselves or do we belittle their titanic,
majestic "greatness". Both of them are excellent products of their epoch.
In reality, Marx's influence on the 20th century can only be compared to Aristotle's
influence on the European Middle ages. Hegel's heyday has not even arrived as yet; he
described the absolute  superstructural "history" of Labour, of Alienation. Very few
individual thinkers know what he is really talking about.

Also, this is not treachery, treason, cowardice or defeatism; au contraire, it's the
cosmic-ontic antidote to Labour, it's the natural-social strychnine in its ahistoric
It's the ABC of simple, simplified Logics. If you can't even act independently, if you
have no idea whatsoever about thinking itself, if you can't excel in anything, in any
way, how on earth could you ever save or emancipate a class, society, mankind,
billions; or anybody or anything, for that matter?

You can't emancipate yourself in the venomous serpent's lair. You have to surpass it,
transcend it.

Until now, the only transcendence which was drilled into our brains was divine
transcendence. It's inevitable point of departure, it's heavenly gate or hellish port is
Death. Death is Labour itself. For us, real, true Emancipation is just as unimaginable, as it
would have been for Socrates, to take a walk in present-day Athens and to try to
comprehend what Globalization is all about.
And yet, there is a direct cosmic-ontic relation between Socrates and global ideology;
furthermore, the polis Athens had been just as real as the current capital of Greece is
true today. The only problem, the only "missing link", is the absence of a
transhistoric, transcendental imagination and consciousness.

Our imagination, our fantasies, our daydreams are so perverted, so pauperized, so
controlled and modified that we can't even conceive a world void of depredation,
domination, discrimination and dehumanization.

Left, right and centre, above, below, in front and behind, we affirm the goodies and
goods of Labour, of Capital, all in the name of democracy, liberty, emancipation,
equality, fraternity, humanity and human rights.

This is not emancipation; real, true emancipation nurtures and cultivates itself in
creativity, artistry, intelligence, wisdom, beauty, truth, music, poetry, imagination,
fantasy, anticipation, expectation, etc. : values and virtues which since millennia are
fading progressively into oblivion.